Lynne d Johnson

 

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03.28.03 08:24 PM

this is how you're supposed to use IM at work

After chatting it up with Donald today, I am all the more awaiting his return to the blogosphere. Here are some excerpts is just about the whole damn conversation (edited) we had today:

dagarrat (12:36:46:00 PM): For some reason, this war has me really irritated at hip-hop even more than usual. It's kinda amplified the way I feel about hip-hop - how hip-hop has really failed Black culture. I see how powerless we are to even voice our concerns. And it's not like hip-hop has taught us that we deserve to be able to voice those concerns either ...

lynneluvah (12:37:41:00 PM): hmm...i'd really like to know more about your thoughts
lynneluvah (12:38:03:00 PM): hip hop in its current state is the epitome of american culture at least the hip hop that is at the commercial fore capitalism is what america is about and so is hip hop thus the connections run deep...hip hop has become as american as apple pie

dagarrat (12:39:10:00 PM): Exactly ... but what do Black people get in exchange for that? Can we honestly say that our children are better off because we have hip-hop?

lynneluvah (12:39:22:00 PM): no i am not saying that at all in terms of economic parity well, i think you know my answer hip hop has made it possible for more black folks to have jobs not just rapping building awareness, consciousness that's not hip hop
lynneluvah (12:40:26:00 PM): no i wouldn't say so but helping black youth move into the fabric of America (read white) out of jail, off the streets...hip hop has played a role, no?

dagarrat (12:42:19:00 PM): Yes, that's not hip-hop. But that's what we needed from hip-hop. We needed more than a few jobs and a whole lot of pipe dreams. We needed a structure of consciousness - and look at what we grew up with. What has hip-hop taught us (or told us) about ourselves? We needed so much more ...And look at what we got.

lynneluvah (12:43:13:00 PM): we got american i'm not saying it is a good thing We have finally become, well, American that's all I can say about it

dagarrat (12:43:33:00 PM): A few more tired magazines (no disrespect intended) to sell us plenty of low-quality shit that we don't need.
dagarrat (12:43:56:00 PM): And who would call hip-hop American?

lynneluvah (12:44:08:00 PM): I mean I read Mulatto America, The New HNIC, ... other stuff and i am not into it being the new civil rights movement nor a religion i mean hip hop it's just another aspect of culture
lynneluvah (12:44:46:00 PM): i don't think it ever meant to promise us anything, and i am not excusing it either but it is a product of this country in so many ways and it takes it to the next level and not in positive ways at all wait back to your ?

dagarrat (12:45:29:00 PM): No, hip-hop doesn't have to be about civil rights or activism - but the blaring message that hip-hop sends it that we don't love ourselves.

lynneluvah (12:45:36:00 PM): nowadays everyone is calling hip hop american especially since em is at the helm of it
lynneluvah (12:45:58:00 PM): but doesn't that generalize hip hop and bring it down to its base and base i mean as in fan base what the radio feeds what the distribution channels overtly and maximally push to the center stage
lynneluvah (12:46:37:00 PM): there is other hip hop music and activism i don't think you can blame hip hop itself but more you can look at transnational capitalism global domination of entertainment industry rests with america in film, tv, music, publications it helped hip hop to build its identitiy when it was first struggling to find itself
lynneluvah (12:48:51:00 PM): i think your contentions are valid but as devil's advocate, and as a cultural critic, i tend to look at all sides

dagarrat (12:48:59:00 PM): But look at hip-hop? It is overwhelmingly negative on so many different levels. Is that the price we pay to be part of a capitalist phenomenon - to sell the worst of ourselves?

lynneluvah (12:49:24:00 PM): it's also what christianity did to us, when we were slaves i think that at times we have to look at history in order to fully understand all of this
lynneluvah (12:49:46:00 PM): hip hop's most heard messages i agree are negative but as i said, there is so much more to hip hop than just the music, and even in music, more than what clear channel or the big 7 of the recording industry pushes

dagarrat (12:50:39:00 PM): I'm not really even talking about the commercial viability of hip-hop per se - I'm talking about how detrimental its messages have been to our culture over the last say 15 years ...

lynneluvah (12:50:42:00 PM): christianity, crack...hip hop and now you're going to have me start talking about conspiracy theories
lynneluvah (12:51:42:00 PM): and yes i agree, i think up there somewhere i said i did, but i need to look at the whole picture, dissect it from the inside out, like some spook who sat by the door type ish

dagarrat (12:51:55:00 PM): It makes me wonder if hip-hop artists could really be mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers and sons and daughters ...

lynneluvah (12:52:39:00 PM): but they are, they are, and they are living the american dream to the nth exponential...and at times it's scary what is funny is how we always hear all this talk about white's ripping off black culture, but in many ways black folks still want to be white and that is what we have here, ruthless, nefarious

dagarrat (12:53:23:00 PM): I don't really believe that either - I think there might be a few artists who really blow up - but most artists are probably still livin in they momma's basement ...

lynneluvah (12:53:36:00 PM): Suge Knight=John Gotti, or some such scenario


dagarrat (12:53:58:00 PM): ... being pimped for their dreams by some gigantic conglomerate that don't give a damn ...

lynneluvah (12:54:35:00 PM): and that's true, most are still living in their momma's basement, and that's the interesting thing about the media industry, for all the cds that come out, all the books that get published, all the tv shows that air, those industries know that only about 10% if that much will succeed but they need the risk and failure, it's biz, it's not culture
lynneluvah (12:55:32:00 PM): i'm not disagreeing with you at all, i just, for myself, need to be clear about what is really happening here no longer do i look at hip hop and say that is "authentic" black culture

dagarrat (12:55:52:00 PM): And honey, you know that these record companies make money off of artists who shit never sees the light of day!

lynneluvah (12:56:08:00 PM): especially since most of who hip hop is being sold to and listened to by is white suburban males, young ones at that
lynneluvah (12:56:34:00 PM): it's another form of slavery on some levels as sharecropping was, it is a similar system that's why so many filmmakers, who want to make good films get discouraged it's a very similar thing

dagarrat (12:56:52:00 PM): See. We are allowing our kids to be pimped.

lynneluvah (12:57:03:00 PM): i mean you gotta think about what is happening in film too

dagarrat (12:57:05:00 PM): Because that's who's being exploited. Black youth.

lynneluvah (12:57:08:00 PM): it is in tandem to this

dagarrat (12:57:14:00 PM): yeah?

lynneluvah (12:57:35:00 PM): and i love that folks have discusssions about this and write about this, etc. etc. but the kid in the pjs or the young boy with the single mom, all he's seeing is dude up on 6th floor driving a range and he wants that too and he looks on tv and he sees it too and that's what he wants
lynneluvah (12:58:18:00 PM): i think it falls back to education education must be addressed more black folks with your way of thinking need to start organizations for youth, and as well open up independent schools

dagarrat (12:59:06:00 PM): Because the message is "Get a Hummer. Impress Your Friends." ... he doesn't stop to think how ridiculous it is to have a car that costs more than his home.

lynneluvah (12:59:17:00 PM): if in a hopeless world you see nothing else but pain, you don't give a fuck about consciousness, you just want to get paid
lynneluvah (12:59:34:00 PM): see we have to not be classist in this either
lynneluvah (12:59:49:00 PM): i mean i don't know your deal but i come from a two parent working class home and often i find i have to be very careful about how i talk about these subjects b/c i don't know what it is to go w/out a meal maybe to go w/out the latest name brand sneakers, but not w/out a meal

dagarrat (1:00:28:00 PM): Right, but that pain isn't - and it never WAS - the totality of our collective Black experience.

lynneluvah (1:00:38:00 PM): s'actly

dagarrat (1:00:51:00 PM): True ... that's the difficulty. Because class is important to consider, too.

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